To other readers of this blog, back in the day when Dr Rezio and I used to sit around and kvetch over a Vietnamese coffee or five, you’d never know that we quibbled so.

In fact I agree with the DFP on practically nothing. I wouldn’t advocate a total moratorium on immigration even on any one nationality, in the US. And I certainly wouldn’t support their socialized health and welfare programs (Danish for “bend over while we surgically remove your kroner”). Just because I’m mean.

But I live in a different country with a different immigration situation. What I actually stated was that I don’t find the DFK’s positions to be unreasonable or radical. To read your blog post, one would think they’re the Daughters of Hitler Society.

Also I never advocated religious persecution, but I do advocate discrimination, which can be a good and helpful thing, especially when you discriminate against people who want to kill you, or do this: (http://www.frontpagemag.com/media/4CDF1CEC-779C-4699-A123-A8992F4D9219/5f35012e-a9b7-4553-abac-efed7da6c983.pdf)

Of course there are moderate Muslims, but in European communities you have a sizable plurality of radicals who bully and intimidate everyone else. This was illustrated in a two-part PBS documentary called “Islam vs. Islamists: Voices from the Muslim Center,” of which only one part was aired (http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/gaffney/070411). Presumably this was because, as Robert MacNeill claimed, it was “alarmist” and “one-sided,” but I was able to watch an airing of it on Fox News and can tell you all it does is profile moderate Muslims who speak out for secular Western values.

One example in the film is Danish lawmaker Naser Khader. A Danish imam has sought to impose Shari’a outside the framework of Danish law, but Khader, a Muslim from Syria, opposes him. Khader says that he’s received threats such as, “We will kill you,” “We will make your life a hell,” and “If you participate in democracy you are a traitor” (except that “kill’ was spelled “C-I-L-L”).

Anyway, it’s not a matter of whether a majority or minority of Muslims are radical; it’s the cultural direction of Islam itself that’s the issue. Instead of moving toward an open, liberal society, most of the Muslim world is moving toward radical fundmentalism, which calls for jihad. Guess what, I have Muslim friends too, and of course they’re decent people. But they’re also well assimilated. Think about it–practically by definition we in high-tech are going to mix with the most urbane, educated, and secular Muslims. Therefore it’s highly unlikely either of us will come into much social contact with fundamentalist Muslims or uneducated Muslims who follow the teaching of radical Imams–precisely the demographic that prevails in the unassimilated communities.

Conservatives insist that immigrants assimilate into their respective host cultures. Assimilation doesn’t mean that you lose your ethnic heritage, language, or religious tradition. At least in the US an individual’s religious practice is protected by the constitution. However, that freedom is limited to the forcible extension of those beliefs to others, and does not tolerate incitement to violence.

Europe and Canada have not assimilated their immigrants as well as the US has, so if Denmark can’t assimilate them, it may have to impose a temporary moratorium. That’s not religious persecution. It’s not any kind of persecution, because a country has no obligation whatsoever to allow haven or residency to citizens of any other country–that is purely a privilege extended to foreign citizens. Notwithstanding, immigration can make a country great. But it has to be controlled, legal immigration followed by assimilation into the host culture. That’s why the US has been such a successful immigrant nation.

On the other hand, you want DFP leaders taken to court merely for expressing their opinions. (Mix any quotes you want with Nazi quotes; it means little because Nazis masked their evil actions with the most benign platitudes.) What about free speech and a lively debate over too many lattes? Hear hear.

Next week: Stan’s crush on Ann Coulter

Gaius

Well, dear Emperor, naturally you don’t find their position extreme – you essentially agree with them. Like you, I have few qualms with groups whose views I share. (You agree with them on the immigration issue at any rate – which is all that matters because everything else on their “platform” is there merely to make them look like a real party.)

DFP, like the rest of the fear-n-hate mongers, shout “The world is coming to an end – the Islamists are coming!” while painting all Muslims with the same broad and bloody brush. I have enough Muslim friends to know that most of them are decent, a few are fantastic, and few are scary. No different than other folk. But DFP wants to block all of them because of what a few say and what even fewer do. That stands in stark contrast to Denmark’s history of immigration and asylum. That IS a issue of concern for all of the Danes that I’ve talked to, who can’t even believe DPF exists, much less has some power. (Body language-wise, it’s a bowed-head, slowly shaken – the same as me when someone mentions Bush.)

Thanks for the Islamo-terror newsflash, but everyone on the planet knows that there are some violent Muslim extremists out there, and naturally they must be dealt with harshly (Did they ever catch that Osama guy?). But to leap to the conclusion that every Muslim is listening to – and believing — the same crazy Imams, or that there aren’t millions of Muslims that just want to raise their children in a safe country and have no plans whatsoever to overthrow civilization… well, that requires a truly disturbing suspension of logic. And humanity. Made even more so by Americans that support DFP, as many of the Muslims being turned away are from Iraq.

But perhaps you’re right. DFP isn’t committing racism so much as… religious persecution. Oh, that’s MUCH better. (It doesn’t come up much anymore, but Americans do still believe in freedom of religion, right? Or was it retired by the Patriot Act.) DFP could say that Denmark needs to take more measures to make sure they aren’t allowing violent or zealous elements into the country, regardless of race or religion – that would be fine. But that’s not what they’re saying. And that’s because that is not what they mean.

They mean things like this:

“All the countries of the West are infiltrated by Muslims – some of them speak politely to us, all while they wait until their numbers are great enough to kill us.” – Mogens Camre, DFP – 2001

“We have to fight a religion which is a plague over Europe.” – Jesper Langballe, DFP – 2002

“Muslims learn that they may lie and cheat, steal and swindel all they want – as long as they don’t do it to other Muslims.” – Pia Kjærsgaard, DFP – 1998

Islam is not a religion in the traditional sense. It is a terrorist organization which seeks world domination through means of violence. — Michael Rex, DFP – 2001

(Here’s a page where these quotes are mixed up with Nazi party quotes. It’s hard to tell the difference: http://cycleliciousness.blogspot.com/2006/03/danish-racism-quiz-its-fun-its.html)

So, Emperor, DFP members have NOT been hauled into court for saying these things? That’s too bad, because they clearly should be. This is the worst kind of pre-fascist, pre-genocidal, scapegoating drivel — and no better than what those Imams are saying. And you call DFP “middle of the road!?” If that’s the middle, then what the fuck is on the right?

Why, WHY must all the good Emperors go completely insane?

How can you possibly take this “all Muslims are moving in perfect synchronicity toward our demise” crap seriously when Iraq has demonstrated so irrefutably that Muslim extremists can’t refrain from killing other Muslims that practice a slightly different flavor of Islam?
As for over-using the word “Racists”, I agree (and did not actually call them racists in my post, by the way), but “RACIST” fits on a sticker so much better – perfect for vandalizing opponent posters. (The defacing of DFP posters has been so wide-spread that DFP is ordering a whole new set.)

That’s not actually the case… Pia Kjærsgaard’s opponent, Communist party member Karen Sunds, characterized her as having “racist views”. Kjærsgaard sued Sunds in court, claiming that she had been libeled. Two lower courts ruled in favor of Kjærsgaard, but the Supreme Court acquitted Sunds of libel.

Re Sunds v Kjærsgaard, the Copenhagen Post reported: “The Supreme Court ruled that Karen Sunds only implied that Pia Kjærsgaard had a negative opinion of immigrants, and was not to be interpreted as racism or an apology for Nazi racist theory.” (http://www.cphpost.dk/get/66828.html)

I’ve been reading about the Dansk Folkeparti (DFP) and can find no mention of a DFP member being prosecuted for racist speech or action. Since you made the claim, maybe you should find one.

As far as I can tell the DFP is a group of average people concerned (if somewhat agitated) about immigration and social welfare issues. If they were based in the US they’d be considered either liberal Republicans or conservative Democrats–in other words, pretty much middle of the road. In fact they so strongly suport social welfare programs, they’d be considered at the liberal end of the spectrum.

My overall point, which the photograph in you blog entry well illustrates, is that many on the left are wont to smack a RACIST sticker on anyone with whom they disagree. This cheapens the meaning of “racist,” a term that should be reserved for the vilest elements of society–skinheads, white supremacists, Nation of Islam, former bellboy at the Teheran Hilton Mahmoud Ahmadinejad… there are plenty of them to label.

Gaius Caligula

But are they racist or religiously bigoted? They don’t appear to be calling for the ouster of Danish Jews (both of them), or people of any particular color. In fact the DFP quote says “Muslims from all countries and not just in the Middle East.” That includes blacks from Somalia and fair-skinned Turks.

Don’t the Danes have a right to be concerned about an insular, radical, violent minority within their country? When the Jyllands Posten published cartoons depicting Mohammed, the cartoonists received death threats and some went into hiding, and the newspaper had to hire security guards.

It wasn’t just a small group of fanatics, either, Muslims took to the streets rioting, throwing rocks, and setting fires across the country (http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/008829.php).

Now, it’s fair to say that the Danes got themselves into this mess, because the Danish government instituted the immigrant worker program that brought them into the country. But a country has just as much right to stop allowing immigrants as it does to allow them in the first place. In other words it’s a privilege that the government extends to citizens of other nations–it has no a priori obligation.

Muslims make up 3% of the Danish population, and most of them, including the second generation, believe that the government should be run by Muslim Shari’a law, and refuse to assimilate into Danish society.

If you want to complain about an ultraconservative group, how about Hizb ut-Tahir, a Scandinavian Muslim group that demonstrates against democracy, human rights, and gender equality?

One of their leaders, Sheikh Issam Amayra, sermonized: “Three percent of the Muslims in Denmark constitute a threat to the future of the kingdom of Denmark. …our Danish brothers will manage to bring Islam to all the homes of the Danish citizens. Allah will grant them the victory in their country in order to raise the Caliphate in Denmark. Afterwards the citizens of the Caliphate (which will be raised in Denmark) will wage war on Oslo, [and] they will fight their neighboring Scandinavian countries in order to join their lands to the territory of the Caliphate. Then they will wage a holy war and spread the teachings of Islam to the rest of Europe, until they reach the original city of Medina.”

And rather than linking to some callow student’s blog, maybe you could pour a drink and peruse this article on the charming Religion of Peace, by a real Islamic scholar:

Beating Freedom of Speech by Robert Spencer
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID={EF975B5C-FE43-4AD0-B748-C296AB891464}